I’ll Explain Later…
I doubt Leia could let that nagging feeling go after Luke told her to wait. I got the impression her sensitivity to the Force was as much a part of her hunch as her ability to read Luke’s gaze and know that he had something he wanted to say. And if she DID get a Force twinge from Luke, then it will be bugging her EVEN MORE than the portrayal onscreen implied. I thought we should acknowledge Leia’s nagging feeling as well as make an observation about ladies (and guys) that worry too much about every little thing someone says. The thing is, in this case, Leia REALLY does have a reason to worry!
Leia was never meant to be Luke’s sister. In earlier drafts of the planned saga, Luke would learn of a sibling (I believe it was always going to be a sister) and would seek her out in a separate story arc. My impression is that it was only after the nightmare behind-the-scenes production experience of The Empire Strikes Back that Lucas decided to be done with his broader plans for sequel trilogies and wind things up in Return of the Jedi. I think this was around the time his personal life began to suffer and he was burning out. So, the Death Star and Luke’s sibling — the one Yoda called “another” in Empire were pushed forward and for lack of anyone more compelling, it became Leia.
I’ve ranted about my feelings on this matter before. I don’t have much of a problem with Leia being Luke’s sister. I can deal with their kiss as purely to spite Han. But I do have a problem with making her his sister and not following through by making the most of that. In the end, it adds a little extra weight to the final confrontation between Luke, Vader and the Emperor, but it also widens the focus to be both Skywalker kids (the Skywalker family, not just son vs Dad). We all know that Leia has had five onscreen confrontations with Vader, and even without knowing he is her father, that invests her character in wanting some sort of resolution… justice… revenge. Why should Luke be the only one to have the right to confront Vader as a father?
1. Leia had her witty repartee with Vader when she was originally captured on the Blockade Runner.
2. She was tortured by Vader personally aboard the Death Star.
3. Vader brought her to watch the destruction of millions of people (including adoptive family and friends) in orbit of Alderaan.
4. Vader had dinner with Han and Leia on Bespin (though, we never see them eat, so in all likelihood there was no real conversation, and perhaps no one even sat down).
5. Leia was forced to watch as her loved one was potentially killed in a carbon block.
Number 3 and number 4 are the most personal of all these moments that Vader and Leia shared, and it is arguable that though Luke’s hand was chopped off by his dad, Leia has a better claim to a final confrontation. So when Lucas decided she would be Luke’s sister, he could have AT LEAST had both Luke AND Leia wind up in the Throne Room scene for the film and trilogy’s climax. Instead, Leia is either so dedicated to her responsibility to the Rebellion, or more likely her attachment to Han Solo, that doesn’t seem to feel it is her problem. Before you argue with me, remember the 5 points I listed and consider Luke’s claim.
And yes, I know that the movie started out about Luke and was to appeal more to boys etc… but that doesn’t justify a sloppy late decision in the storytelling. The films aren’t flawless… but having said that, while I do see huge missed opportunities in Return of the Jedi, I still enjoyed the ride like most people. There are plenty of other characters and moments to distract from the core story, model work, Henson workshop, John Williams etc… In other words, thank Force the Star Wars Original Trilogy was a sum of its parts and not solely carried by George Lucas. I don’t think there has been nearly enough writing about the subject of Leia, as the Luke vs Vader thing continues to dominate the mainstream public’s impression of Star Wars.
It’s also the reason that Blue Milk Special Leia smokes.
I get around this issue by saying the Force did not put all its eggs in one basket. If Luke failed, Leia would be the back-up hope.
How does that get around the issue of wasting the character of Leia? She has the more compelling and sympathetic story of the two.
Because if Luke fails, Leia gets to have a more compelling and sympathetic story. You sacrifice the pawn before you sacrifice the queen. I agree with your sentiment, I am just saying that I manage to live with the lack of a more compelling story through a mind trick. 😛
Personally if I was to have made the series, I would have had the big shocker of ROTJ be when Luke and Vader turn on Palpatine in unison and rule the Galaxy as father and son. Then you get Leia dealing with both her dad and brother and the dark side suddenly becomes actually corrupting and tempting – because in all the star wars movies and everything else, nobody is seduced by the dark side, it just happens and is kind of at best a lazy lack of discipline portrayal. That way you get the OT story and then Leia’s stronger story building up to a much larger climax. People go in thinking ROTJ is closure and instead of it being the slow unwind conclusion, it turns into a creeping corruption hint and then Luke falls to the dark side. Especially with the little details about how Luke “drew close to the dark side” when he choked those Gamorreans and such, it would be little things.
Huge missed opportunity. George Lucas clearly didn’t realize what his choice would entail by choosing Leia as the other. Many fans, excluding yourself, seem to miss the point too.
Know this is from years ago, but I believe the original plan for the sequels was that Luke would turn to the dark side at the end of ROtJ, and then Leia would be the main character for the next sequence of films (though whether that is anything more than urban legend I don’t know – given how much the ‘official’ story about the films has changed over the years)
I always thought Leia was some sort of backup plan in case Luke failed. She definitely was that in Yoda’s plan. If they both showed up in the throne room, the secret that there was another hope would have been spoiled, and in addition the emperor would have some more leverage against Luke in the fight by simply hurting her.
I think you miss the point I’m making. The movies were a trilogy and yet the character that is the main protagonist, Luke, has the weaker story line of the two Skywalkers when compared to Leia. It gives an unsatisfying ending for Leia by failing to resolve any of her development by the end of Jedi. This is made worse by deciding at the last minute to make her the sister of Luke and give her an even bigger claim to having a final confrontation before the end of the trilogy. While I appreciate what you guys are saying, I personally don’t care that she was a back up plan, all I care about is the final result of the storytelling, which is sadly half-baked.
Do you think it’s just an issue with Leia or a wider issue with female characters in the trilogy? I mean despite of Leia’s leader of rebellion shenanigans she seems to revert to damsel in distress mode more often than not. And take Leia out of it and well… where are the women?
Maybe Lucas just struggles with the idea of a truly strong female character, like the one you suggest? I’ve always lamented the lack of Leia the Jedi in the trilogy. Of course, I’m not slating its amazingness, one of my favourite scenes is still when Luke flips out when Vader suggest Leia would turn he doesn’t! Suppose I’d lost that with Leia there, but I agree with what you’re saying.
Yeah, there’s a glaring gender bias in Star Wars for sure. But the one main female character (and just about only female character at all in the trilogy), is actually quite a powerful one thanks to Carrie Fisher’s performance AND portrayal of Leia in the first film not as a damsel, but a tough-as-nails woman who just happened to be captured by the bad guys. She gives Han Solo plenty of smart-assery, can hold her own in a fight, and takes a proactive leadership role during the escape. She’s no pushover and certainly not helpless arm-dressing for the guys. However, by the end of the trilogy, most of the events that have happened to her and supposedly shaped her even further into a very angst-ridden heroine, are effectively ignored and her potential is the biggest failing of the films and Lucas. There is never any real reaction or repurcussions onscreen for Leia regarding Alderaan and how that impacts her in the subsequent movies. Never any explicitly given desperation for revenge. And if she doesn’t seek satisfaction from Vader, then it would have been nice to have had a scene to articulate why.
For example, perhaps her steely resolve was to hold back her thirst for personal revenge by carrying out her responsibility to the Rebellion and the bigger picture. This is how I rationalize her sense of responsibility midway through Return of the Jedi, verses Luke’s arguably selfish decision to attempt to take care of personal matters rather than remaining part of the Rebel plan. This makes Leia an incredibly strong character, and yet this requires fans to rationalize it themselves because no effort is made onscreen to give her character the development required to express this resolve. Instead, as you say, by the end of the trilogy, Leia has been taken out of the story pretty much and is just a supporting character with massive wasted potential. All due respect to Mark Hamill, but I think Carrie Fisher could have carried the protagonist role just as well if not better.
If Star Wars was made today, Leia’s chances of actually getting a real slice of the story would be so much better because it has become less daring to have female heroines in action fantasy films. Perhaps we will see something of this in Star Wars VII?
I’d certainly hope so, the attraction of a VII has always been the resolution of the “Leia” issue. We’ll see what happens on that front. Btw love the comic as always, you do a great job!
I wasn’t thinking they would resolve anything to do with Leia in Star Wars VII. I think that boat has already sailed with the conclusion of Return of the Jedi in 1983. I was thinking that a new female character who is the lead in Star Wars VII might be an opportunity for Star Wars. I just hope she has the sort of spark about her that made Leia compelling to watch onscreen.
Though Leia being the sister to Luke is a lame hack by circumstances, her seemingly less emotional reaction and continuing leading the Rebellion does fit her role as a headstrong politician (with movie related heroism on top). She does her thing leading the assault on the shield generator. She is more down-to-earth in her war effort. Luke confronting his father and the Emperor is more of a desperate and esoteric way to battle the Empire – so desperate that it screams failure all over. Yes, Luke is not anymore the apprentice from episode 4 or 5. He somehow completed his training, he is kinda Jedi now – but just.
As I watched the movie for the first time, I expected Luke to fail miserably, dying along with Vader in the destruction of the Deathstar 2 or miraculously being rescued by Lando while his sister Leia rips the Empire a new one. It would have worked for me if Luke and Vader would have eliminated each other and Leia somehow killed the Emperor – maybe even with a simple, blunt and unexpected headshot.
The movie went the other way.
Never seen Leia as being less important or badly represented – if anything she IS the rebellion, she IS the driving element behind Luke.
The movie did not do a good job to communicate this, though.
Great points. Additional thoughts from me: Leia being as headstrong as she is, and those five points I mentioned, is part of why I think the decision to make her the sister and then do nothing with it is so bad.
I don’t know.
Personally, I’d hope that Leia’s reaction to finding out about Vader would be something along the lines of “Luke, I’m happy to find out you’re my brother, but Anakin (let alone Vader) was never my father.”
But, I suppose that would still have required actually doing something with that plot element. :-/
Yep. It’s a shame that it was left to the Expanded Universe to more fully address this almost whimsical late change by Lucas.
Re Leia’s ‘revenge’ about the destruction of Alderaan, wouldn’t it have been sorted by the destruction of the Death Star and the death of Tarkin, who ordered the deed ? That’s the tit for tat taken care of. Her animosity towards Vader would only be for the torture and as any figurehead of the Empire. Surely a lesser crime. As stated, nowadays her role would be made more of, along with more obvious female representation amongst the rebels, hard to do with aliens of course.
It seems a lot of people can’t quite comprehend what Leia lost with Alderaan. Think about our world. The plants, the trees, the waterfalls, the lakes, mountains, flowers and fields, the niagra falls, the Chinese valleys, Paris, Prague, your grandparent’s cute little house, cats, dogs, horses (nerfs and gundarks), people, friends, children, families, adoptive parents, lives, loves, hopes and dreams. Now try to imagine all of that gone. Do you honestly think Tarkin dying in anyway atones for that hurt, anger and loss in Leia? It’s one of Star Wars’ and a lot of fantasy fiction’s weakest and most cartoony aspects, disregarding consequences and the impact they have on characters. I’m not saying Leia should be in a psychiatric ward, but I am saying that at the very least that no, Tarkin’s death does not “sort it out”.
I agree that it was a waste of potential in her character. Maybe Lucas had bigger plans for her for a follow up movie/trilogy?
I could never reconsile with the dark Luke tangent, where he becomes another Vader and she saves him, but that would have been one possibility.
Still, it would have worked to have her in the throne room, and somehow bring out the light in Luke, when he was near darkness.
From the point of view of the story line, the reason Leia wasn’t in the throne room at the end of Jedi is Obi dropped that particular ball. He didn’t say anything in New Hope about Leia being Luke’s sister, so all that time to the battle of Hoth was lost for her own Jedi training. She would have ended up as a piece of eye candy beside the Emperor’s throne, we might have gotten a few good lines of interaction between them, and then she would be used as leverage against Luke after he beat Vader. Vader would still flip, Luke might have lost it, and DS2 would still have been blown up.
If the whole siblings thing wasn’t resolved until the filming of Jedi, well, hindsight is 20/20, and reshooting and editing that much film is REALLY expensive. And it would all have been a bad start to George’s retconning habit.
This is ridiculous. The script is written before filming, Falconer. Therefore, the final scenes need not be anything like the ones we got. This is the failure of ROTJ that I’m talking about. I don’t care about the excuses, I’m talking about how it ultimately weakens the narrative by making a joke out of Leia’s character development. Effectively, form Lucas’ POV, she’s the sibling who doesn’t matter in the trilogy.
When they decided to make Leia his sister, that was the time to make the movie reflect that change in the story. You’re saying it wouldn’t work well because of how the scene was ultimately written and that Leia would be on the sideline. Huh? Are you missing the point that if you rewrite one thing, it effects what follows? I know not everyone is a storyteller by nature, but in an engineering sense, any tweak you make effects everything further down the chain. Therefore, making that tweak, knowing you can’t make subsequent adjustments is stupid. I think it’s quite possible that at the time, they couldn’t see the forest for all the trees and somehow didn’t fully comprehend the repercussions of the sibling plot bombshell. The film is weaker because of this.
Yes, the throne room scene would have been very different with Leia, and the fact Lucas and co made no effort to do anything with Leia after the bombshell piece of plot news was dropped is my complaint.
Also, separately, if Lucas decided after the script was written, so late into the game, that he should add the Leia sibling bit during filming (leaving him no time to re-write the film to reflect the importance of this for Leia) then this is still a huge failing in my opinion.
I really enjoy ROTJ for many different reasons. In fact, believe it or not, I am less critical of the film that most people. I don’t mind the muppets in Jabba’s palace and I can tolerate the ewoks. And I think the throne room scene that we got was an incredible scene. I’m just being objective here about the repercussions of a plot decision that badly let a character down and in my mind, the fans.
Could you imagine Leah VS Vader? The Emperor would have a field day. Leah’s hatred of Vader is deep even though she knows he’s her father. I can hear the Emperor cackling now as the Dark side flowed. Leah would need a very strong will not to go to the Dark side. And if she did turn, the Emperor is a little close. I always thought the last scene could have been done differently.
Holy heavens, Leia turning to the dark side? That would ROCK! After the junk she’s been through, I could picture it.
I make that joke every time I see this scene. “Ask me again sometime” is such a weird response!
I doubt Yoda would have let Leia go to fight Vader because of her emotional hatred of him. Jedi don’t fight angry. 🙂
Why would she FIGHT Vader on his terms? Why can’t she be there with great dialogue and acting? Is that all fans want nowadays? Lightsaber battles?
This raises the point that Vader supposedly redeemed himself, by siding with Luke against the Emperor, and destroying him. I think he got off really easy.
How was Leia’s acceptance of Luke telling her that their dad came back to the light?
I’d be like “Screw him, where’s my planet, and all of the other people he killed?” He may have saved his ghost (again got off easy with that one), but she probably still thinks he is a major jerk. Some wounds just do not heal.
Agreed. I have had a family problems myself though nothing of the serial killing, child killing paternal kind that Luke has. 😉 I personally don’t care if Luke is a buddhist monk, if my dad butchered children and wiped out all the Shaolin monks, I would think he is a pretty disgusting human being. Also, neither Luke nor Leia knew their dad or spent any time with him, so the casual attitude makes it harder to relate to them no matter how noble they are being. I couldn’t personally forgive a father I didn’t know for murdering people, especially children.
—-perks up from daydream… Light saber battles? Yes please…. Er. Sorry, stirred the pot there…with a light saber hehe.
Perhaps Leia thought she would be better helping Han take down the shields to defeat the Empire rather than one man, powerful as he may be defeating the symbol of Imperial power and the Emperor were things she felt she could do. It does seem slapdash when you put it in those five points but it may be Leia didn’t know how she would start to factor into a confrontation like that and allowed Luke to try, put her faith in him and in the force so to speak. Either way we can argue it all we want, it is what happened and still better and more emotional than the prequels (imo).
LOL. That’s true.
After the first movie failed to include the Wookie (minority), to be duely included in the medal of honour scene, I had no hopes for anyone besides white males to get any recognition (I was a disilusioned 10 years old, but I guess as a german it’s not unusual to be feel the need to watch out for racism everywhere).
It’s true what you said about Leia, but ever since movie 1, I didn’t have any hopes in that regard.
In fact I’m surprised how much of a chance Lando managed to get to redeem himself in the last movie.
Well at least she got to strangle the slug, even that is more than most female characters would have gotten back then.
Hey guys I wanted to ask a question about the comic, Are you planning on doing content about the new Star Wars movie and what are your thoughts on it?
We are not planning to do it. We are not ruling it out either. We just don’t want to get ahead of ourselves. It will really depend on the availability of our time after ROTJ is complete, and also whether Star Wars VII inspires us or not. I’m a little nervous about Star Wars VII not having the flavors that made the OT appeal to me so much. So I’m not going to commit to a parody until I know whether I like the film enough to invest that sort of energy into it. Unlike some fans, I’m withholding judgement of the film until I’ve seen it. We had talked about doing a parody of the Thrawn Trilogy after ROTJ, but even that is questionable at the moment because of problems with our finances. It’s tough doing a free fan project when you’re on a single income. There is a possibility of a new way to approach Blue Milk Special after ROTJ, but I don’t want to freak anyone out by bringing it up just yet! 🙂
Alright, none the less, I look forward to the outcome
Rod,
This is perhaps the best blog/comments section I have seen on the comic. I totally agree with your frustration with the Leia character and how she was handled during ROTJ. I will say that the EU did a decent job of picking the character up from where Lucas left her and progressing her story in a decent manner.
Truce At Bakura covers Leia’s attempts to cope with the revelation that Darth Vader was her biological father as well as his force ghost trying to talk to her and (from what i remember) she didn’t want to talk to him. A very reasonable response given the points you brought up about her interactions with him.
Also, in other EU books (the books is primarily what I know. I didn’t read the comics), she does get some training from Luke and becomes decent with a lightsaber.
So, while Lucas dropped the ball with the character I do feel the EU did a decent job picking up the pieces and moving the character forward.
John 🙂
Blue Milk, first of all love all the hard work you’ve put into this series. It’s beyond brilliant. Regarding the issue of Leia in Return, I couldn’t agree more. I understand that the saga was always in flux, but agree wholeheartedly that once the decision was made about the siblings things should have been replotted slightly. For thematic unity and satisfaction in storytelling it could have been easy. And Kurshner already had two nice moments for her in Empire that could have unintentionally foreshadowed the Return development… The Luke telepathy scene to her, and the wonderful shot of her giving Vadar the death glare before Han is frozen.
In Return, she could have easily followed Luke unbeknownst to him when he leaves the village, with perhaps a cut to her being startled and surprised… Later to reveal she was captured. Probably the reveal is to Luke when he’s in the throne room. Then you have our two protagonists together against the two main antagonists. Also gives Han more investment in his arc, fighting while still wondering what happens to his two friends and also jealous. Luke can still have his journey that Lucas wants. Leia can be biting and wily and also have resolution.
Well, I always figured that Luke totally wasted his time. I mean, the best he might say is he distracted Vader and the Emperor while Leia and everyone else got on with the real job. I mean, take him out of the picture and the rebels still take down the shield, destroy the death star, and everyone on it. Job done.
This is very true. Moff Jerjerrod is the one managing the practicalities of the Death Star defense, while Piett and his subordinates manage the engagement with the Rebel forces. Aside from the Emperor telling Piett and Jerjerrod to hold back on a few surprises, the Emperor pretty much lets them handle everything while he plays games with Luke.
I totally agree with you on Leia being under utilized in the end. In fact I believe the whole ending of the movie was a waste, felt rushed and slapped together to me. I see so much potential in the movie that was made it kind of makes me sad. I may be wrong but I believe Lucas was having a breakdown between ESB and ROTJ and this could be a result. I don’t believe Leia was the original choice for the “other” but an after thought by Lucas to wrap up a storyline he no longer had interest in following. Leia started off with lots of potential for an epic involvement in the final chapter when she showed up in Jabbas Palace but became a secondary character in a flash. Lucas just gave up on the character because he couldn’t come up with a proper conclusion to her arc after his last minute reveal. I feel he was just being lazy after I discovered we traded a planet of wookies for a planet of ewoks……come on ewoks? The prequels had this same laziness throughout and I find it a lack of respect for the fans. They could have been so much better with just a few tweaks, a dead gungan and no 11 year old Anakin. But that is a discussion I truly don’t want to get started with. I hope you do continue with the comic after the conclusion of this storyline as I find it truly a breathe of fresh air and wish you the best in whatever else you do instead.
I don’t think that Vader tortured Leia and that he planned on making her his new apprentice. Think on it Vader enters the room with the floating black torture ball but when Luke enters her cell, she doesn’t have a hair out of place let alone any marks. She’s calm and smarmy. Vader would have figured out pretty quickly by ‘pushing’ her that she was resisting him with the force. He would have felt it in her even if she didn’t know what or why she was doing it. Vader felt it in Luke when he was using the force to aim during the destruction of the Death Star. So here’s Vader with a potentially strong force using Princess at his disposal. I think he saw that she would be a great apprentice in that he could do whatever he wanted to bring her over to the darkside. He probably shut down the torture quickly because like I said she didn’t have a hair out of place. I always felt like he planned on doing more with her once he was finished with his meetings that day.
Well, after seeing The Force Awakens, I agree with you. Leia’s relationship with Vader was overseen and I reckon it might be developed further in the new canon.
P.S. LEIA DIDN’T DESERVE THIS.